Faithful and Fractured: An Interview on the Clergy Health Crisis (Part II)
The first part of the interview posted earlier this week.
Jackson: Jason, you poignantly note, “We go into ministry because we want to be part of Jesus’s saving lives and of his coming kingdom, which will renew all things. And then we can’t see how our jobs have anything to do with those things. Fill out these forms. Go to these meetings. Get gossiped about. Where’s the drama we sought? The life-changing, earth-restoring avalanche of grace we wanted to be part of?” What do you think are some practical ways pastors’ expectations can be rightly calibrated when they begin ministry? How might some who are already deeply immersed in a pastoral work deal with this?
Jason: My best suggestion is to tangle up your lives with those of friends and parishioners who talk this way—who situate what we’re up to in light of God’s strange and surprising way of saving the world. The solution to a public health problem is a public solution, a benevolent contagion—growing the eyes to see the hand of God in surprising places. Once you look for help with that, you’ll find God has already provided friends, parishioners, writers, singers, folks who see like that and want to help others see like that.
Monks and nuns speak of the noonday demon as acedia. Sloth. A sense that all our actions and words are meaningless. Going through this as a pastor in a sense is no different than going through it as a Christian. Most of our life is undramatic. That’s true of everything that matters—being a parent, a spouse, a friend, a human being. I have to do the laundry again?! The answer is, of course, yes (despite distractions that would say ‘no!’ or ‘here’s something more exciting!’). The trick is to learn how to see God at work even in laundry.
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Jackson: The book notes that clergy experience a great deal of satisfaction and dissatisfaction in the ministry. However, despite our initial intuitions, these “experiences don’t average out into some middle ground; instead, clergy hold both the highs and the lows.” Can you explain a bit more of what you meant by that? How does this “holding both” set up the clergy for being vulnerable to mental or physical health maladies?
Rae Jean: A lot has been written about the stressors on clergy, so I wasn’t surprised when the data we collected from clergy showed emotional exhaustion and sometimes symptoms of depression. But then we found that sometimes the very same pastor who was emotionally exhausted also was satisfied with many aspects of ministry. In other work, Joe Stewart-Sicking found that Episcopal priests endorsed both more negative emotions and more positive emotions than the average American. Both! Clergy hold both the funerals and the baptisms. I think this is very interesting and part of what makes pastors special. However, it doesn’t necessarily position clergy to be more vulnerable to health problems – after all, holding both sure beats only holding funerals! But with such emotional swings, pastors do need to find ways to recover and rejuvenate.
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Jackson: You share an intriguing and disturbing observation from some research from Matt Bloom of Notre Dame. He says, based on clergy interviews, that whenever the church is struggling, the clergy’s person memory of his call story is weaker. What responsibility do church members have in affirming the pastor’s gifts and calling as a function of their support of the shepherd who serves them?
Jason: The church as a corporate body is tasked with telling the story with special patience for those without ears for it at the moment: the infant, the memory-impaired, the lonely, the aged, the stranger, those who have never heard. Sometimes that person without ears is the pastor. The pastor is no spiritual hero, believing in God more or better than others–often we believe less or worse. We’re just good with words and people and have some education—that may just make us more dangerous spiritually. Lots of the older saints at Boone Methodist where I served had to sit me down and say “Wait, remember what we’re about here . . .” and then it was as basic as Jesus loves us all, died for us, has some good reason for not yet making all things new . . . I think having the reason for serving be reignited can help one’s call shine more brightly.
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Jackson: Pastors have heard lot about burnout through the years. Either they experience it, hear from others experiencing it, or are given some abstract explanation of it in seminary. You specifically describe three elements of work-related burnout: emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, and lack of personal accomplishment. The idea of being depleted (emotional exhaustion) and doubting our effectiveness (lack of accomplishment) strike me as more understandable on the face of it. However, the idea of depersonalization is one that I think is less discussed. Can you both comment on this problem a bit?
Rae Jean: Depersonalization is basically cynicism. Any of us can become cynical and start to do things like make fun of others or not feel their pain. Having that distance keeps us more comfortable and helps us survive during times of burnout, but we’re not fully present when we depersonalize others.
Jason: I read once that children of pastors and children of politicians have a lot in common. They understand one another. Their parents were in high-intensity, high-visibility, high-pressure, and also, in a way, high-reward professions. How are we treating our politicians these days? And what sorts of people are standing for office? I was struck how often I was treated as an obstacle or a mascot in my pastoral role. But any time you have people and goals and budgets and conflicting desires you have politics, and I was a player in those politics. But then I had to realize—how often have I happily acted the politician?! Marshalled my side’s forces, worked against the other’s . . . One key pastoral role is supposed to be to stop and note the specific place for holiness when none of us can see it. Parishioners are called to do it too. We all fail at this sometimes, and when that goes on for a period of time, it’s depersonalization.
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Jackson: In light of the high depression rates among clergy, what suggestions might you have for church pulpit committees or personnel committees to help them to be proactive in supporting their pastor(s)?
Rae Jean: I love the idea of church committees being proactive to prevent contributing to downward spirals for their pastors, and they really can do this! In our studies, we see patterns in which pastors who feel uncared about as individual people have more depression symptoms. So ask your pastor about her family and vacation plans, or his hobbies and favorite tv shows. Also, give criticism in kind ways, such as privately and with recognition of the good the pastor is doing. And then there’s reason to believe that bolstering dreams and meaning can trigger positive spirals in life rather than depressing downward spirals. So co-create a vision for your church with your pastor and do small and big things to support it, or boost your pastor’s sense of meaning by telling him when he genuinely says something that really touches you.
Jason: I’d say two things. Be sure your pastor stops and takes note of the joys. We take those for granted. How glorious is it to baptize someone, to bathe them with Christ’s grace? How magnificent to feed others with what we’re feasting on ourselves—Jesus! We should journal right then, call someone, give thanks, celebrate. If Rae Jean is right and we feel the highs and the lows more, we’d better stop and feel the highs and not take them for granted. Two, make sure we exercise. Drag us out and make us against our will if you have to. Exercise is powerful against depression. We’ll be happier, healthier, more prayerful people for having done so. And better pastors.
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Jackson: Your book was filled with a wealth of insights and observations that we aren’t able to fully consider in this brief interview. Do you have any final insights you feel are important for readers beginning to think about this topic?
Rae Jean: Pastors need repeated permission to spend time on themselves, because every day is a new day and with their work being sacred, they are at constant risk of over-extending themselves. Should clergy over-extend themselves? Yes! Sure! Sometimes! But with the long view in mind, clergy should fill their cup before it gets completely dry.
When we compared pastors who were flourishing to those who were burned out, we found that flourishing pastors focused on the process of working in alignment with God, rather than focusing on short-term outcomes. Flourishing pastors also shared their joys—and not just their troubles–with friends more often.
Jason: It is not selfish to take care of your body and soul. It’s faithful. We are not robots or computer programs. We are fully embodied creatures. We have a faith with an embodied creator at our heart. Our faith does not ask us to be happy—it asks us to be joyful—feasting is at the heart of what we do, as is fasting. When Christ raises us it’ll be in our bodies. Gnostics—early Christian heretics—are those who deny the goodness of the body. Let’s be orthodox Christians instead.
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Jackson: Thank you both for your time, and for sharing this work with the Christianity community!
Rae Jean: I’m delighted to support clergy in their often brave work.
Jason: Thank you so much for your attention to our work!
Notes: Faithful and Fractured was released on May 1.
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