Grief, Care-Giving, and the Church with Dr. Roy Harris: Part 2
Today’s post is the second part of my interview with Dr. Roy Harris.
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JW: So there’s plenty of work for us to be doing already in the local church on this front. That seems clear. But when you look at the situation, do you see this as an opportunity for the church in their own communities in terms of outreach and care beyond the four walls of the church building?
RH: I think there is opportunity there. Now typically when you think about church growth, you don’t typically think about older couples as a part of that group. You typically think about young couples who are getting married, bearing children, and so forth. That’s usually where growth comes in a church. But, if a church becomes known as a church that’s loving and caring, they create avenues for folks from the outside to become engaged with things that go on in the church—activities sponsored for the church designed for people along those lines, I think there’re great opportunities there because the widows and widowers are very lonely people. And they’re out there by themselves. There are a number of those folks who aren’t in church. If we can get to those people with the Gospel, they’re searching just like everyone else, but maybe a little different venue because they’ve had a terrible loss and they’re going through a difficult situation. So I think the opportunity is there if we’ll move on it and move forward.
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JW: And of course, really, the plight of those grieving and care-giving, that would have application to younger generations as well. Obviously there’re not as many losing spouses at 25 or 30, but it is happening, or caring for a disabled child, or something like that. And so it seems like maybe we have a big opportunity.
RH: Yeah, let me comment on that just a bit. People who go through divorce go through a difficult time of grief. So that, along with the care-giving aspect of a child who maybe has a disability of some kind or special needs, does appeal to people. There are opportunities. And so it isn’t just limited to the older ones. I think that’s a very good point.
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JW: When I’ve looked at your experiences, your resume, you certainly have a sweeping, broad ministry resume, in terms of pastoring churches, serving church-related institutions, and just being a widely-traveled person. When you take all of that together (and I’m thinking now especially about our Free Will Baptist listeners and readers of the site), what do you think is perhaps the biggest challenge our movement is facing at this moment?
RH: I think probably the greatest challenge is the lack of denominational loyalty. I think denominations across-the-board seem to be declining as far as the denomination-wide concept. Many times it’s because there’s a lack of loyalty even in the local church. People will change churches almost like they’re shopping and they look for other venues, other avenues. It’s almost like the shopping mall. They’re looking for someone who will give them what they need rather than the concept of what can I do to be involved and make a difference. My concern is that our congregations are aging. We somehow must build into our congregations the young people and the loyalty. But also a second threat close on the heels of that is the financial threat. Young people find themselves in difficult financial straits. They get in debt head-over-heels. Credit cards are so easy, and that impacts the church. And when the older generation is gone, it’s going to impact the church even more. So that’s something I’m seeing also, the financial end. It’s still the older people that are kind of paying the bills, and that could be a tremendous threat also to our movement with regards to the long-term financial stability of it.
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JW: One of the questions I always enjoy asking people in these interviews and just in general conversation is about people and even key books perhaps that have influenced them. When you think about your time as a leader in the church and Christian institutions, could you name a few people in your life and a few books even (if that applies) that have been instrumental in you spiritual development?
RH: Sure. I think probably if I go back to even my teenage years (of course my parents were a great influence on me. My dad’s been a deacon for 50 years, and I remember when he became a deacon many years ago. So he’s had a paramount influence on me). Another guy was my pastor when I was a senior in high school. His name was Ed Hargiss. Ed was the one who introduced our church to Welch College. And as a result of that, there were 14 of us who ended up going to Welch College (this from a man who could not get a college education because he had five kids). He really challenged me. My plan was to go into the business world. But he challenged me. He said one night in his office when he called me, “Roy, I believe God has something special for you. And it’s more than making money.” And I never got away from that. And because of that I went to Welch College, answered the call to preach, went into the ministry, and so on.
I think another person [that impacted me] is Dr. Charles Thigpen. I had the privilege of having him as a professor. But then later on, as Dean of Students, I had the privilege of working under him as President. And watching how he handled situations I think taught me a great deal about leadership. But I’ve been involved in leadership since I was 17. So there were a lot of people, but those two stick out. I remember one situation with Dr. Thigpen. It was a touchy situation, and it was going to create a problem, but it was a discipline issue that we had to deal with. And he told me afterward, “Roy, I may not have gone exactly in the same direction you did. But you’re closer to it than I am, and I trust you.” And I never forgot that. I try to convey that along the way to those who worked with me that I trusted them.
As far as books, there are so many. I would suggest that if you really want to learn some things about the care-giving aspect and grieving if you’ll contact me at roy@royharris.info, I’ll send you my dissertation. It has a list of all kinds of resources on care-giving and grief—far too many to list here. But I love to read after Adrian Rogers. He’s dead and gone now, but he was a tremendous pastor and preacher. W.A. Criswell’s book on basic pastoring impacted me back in my early 30s in organizing and structuring my day. Those are two that kind of stick out, book-wise, of men I like to read after.
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JW: Well that’s all the time we have for this particular interview. But we’re very excited about the weekend we have ahead of us. Thank you for taking time to answer some questions.
RH: Well thanks for taking the time for wanting to interview. I hope maybe some things I’ve said can make a difference
JW: Absolutely!
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