How big is your church? This question has been asked of all pastors by fellow pastors, neighbors, family members, and often on denominational reporting forms (just to name a few instances). I’ve often thought the question itself is consequential and meaningful but not for the reasons people often think. Church size is not just about a pastor or a congregation’s past or present faithfulness. It is also intimately connected to our ministry strategy, organizational dynamics, and a number of important leadership decisions about how we shepherd those in our care.
Because some people often misunderstood the topic of church size, I was incredibly gratified by the recent publication of David Peter’s Maximizing the Midsize Church: Effective Leadership for Fruitful Mission and Ministry (Kregel, 2019). Dr. Peter is Professor of Practical Theology and Dean of the Faculty at Concordia Seminary. He has also been a pastor and currently serves as an interim pastor. I was enthusiastic about offering an endorsement for his book and was pleased that he was able to answer some questions about his book that I think readers will find helpful.
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Jackson Watts (“JW”): Dr. Peter thank you for taking time to answer my questions and for writing this book. What motivated you to tackle this subject?
David Peter (“DP”): I teach courses in pastoral leadership, and in them I emphasize that a pastor should adjust his leadership style to fit the size culture of the congregation. In order to do so, one needs to understand the size culture and the appropriate leadership approach to it. I discovered that there are many books and resources available for leading small and large churches but few to none for midsize congregations. So I undertook to fill that gap with this book.
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JW: Can you define what you mean by “midsize church?” What counts as one? How rigid of a category is it?
DP: I define the midsize church as having an average weekly worship attendance of 150 to 400. These are not arbitrary boundaries but reflect a consensus of research over several decades. Basically what this means is that, at about 150 AWA (average worship attendance), a tipping point arises in which the congregation’s culture of organization, communication, and leadership should change in order to function effectively. Another tipping point arises at around 400 AWA. So the culture of a church with less than 150 AWA is small, that of a congregation more than 400 is large, and the culture of a church in between is midsize. This is what I mean by “size cultures.” The boundaries are not hard and fast, so typically we speak of transition zones between size cultures of give or take 50 AWA. It is also possible for some midsize churches to function as small churches or even large churches, but these are exceptions and not the rule.
With this definition of a midsize church (150–400 AWA) I calculate that approximately 75,000 congregations in the USA qualify, or about one-fourth of the total number of Christian churches in America.
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JW: Explain what you mean by the “discontent that is endemic to the midsize church.”
DP: Pastors and leaders of medium churches feel the pressure from two sides. On the one side is the expectation that the church will retain the feel of a small congregation with a very homogeneous composition and frequent personal contact with the pastor. On the other side is the pressure to function like a large church with many high quality programmatic opportunities that are polished and professional for members to benefit from. So the leaders of midsize churches frequently feel torn between these expectations.
Church members oftentimes are not content because their expectations are not being met. Church leaders are frustrated because they cannot meet the members’ expectations. Of course, the solution is to identify expectations that are appropriate for the midsize congregation and to pursue those. This is one of the goals of my book: to help leaders and members of these churches be more realistic about the nature of mission and ministry in medium churches and to embrace these realities and find greater contentment.
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JW: I found it interesting that you argue that in many cases the differences between a smaller church and a much larger church are more reflected in how the church functions than in whether the church is rural or urban, whether it is ethnically diverse, or how the church is denominationally affiliated. Can you illustrate what you mean?
DP: Certainly denominational and theological differences between churches are important. The same is true for other demographical variables. I am not discounting those distinctions. However, the differences in size are frequently overlooked when comparing congregational dynamics.
An illustration is in the way the pastor functions. Pastors of small churches from various denominations and faith backgrounds will function similarly in how they lead and provide pastoral care. This will be very direct and personal; the pastor has regular and frequent one-on-one interactions with ALL members of the church. But a pastor of a large church does not have the capacity to do this. So he must delegate the responsibility of caring for members and of discipleship to others, such as the church staff. The members will have direct and personal engagement usually with staff workers but not with the pastor. This is true whether you are Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Anglican, or whatever. It is just a reality of the number of people involved and the limitations of the pastor.
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JW: You suggest then that the wise pastor must do some “right sizing.” Churches that grow cannot just do “business as usual.” So it’s not only true that churches won’t grow by doing business as usual, but if the church is growing, then it must evolve in the way it communicates, operates, trains, etc. Can you give an example of right sizing working itself out?
DP: A major difference between a small church and a midsize church is that the former is more homogeneous in makeup and the latter is more heterogeneous. So to “right size” in a medium church, the leaders and members must embrace the heterogeneous character and not assume that everyone thinks the same way or does things similarly. There will be a greater number of programs and identity groups, as well as approaches to mission and ministry.
An example is the worship services. A small church will likely have one service that has the same worship style week after week. A midsize church will probably offer different musical styles and orders in multiple worship services. Accordingly, right-sizing the midsize church will include embracing greater diversity. I think this is a strength of the middle-sized church—one that should be celebrated and “maximized.”
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JW: Many readers will be pastoring churches that are “pastoral sized,” according to Alice Mann’s categories. Can you help those readers better understand what the implications of this are for their ministries?
DP: The pastoral size church is one with average worship attendance of 50 to 150. It is in the category of the small church but not of the very small church (which would be 50 AWA or less). It is called the pastoral size congregation because organizationally speaking everything hinges on the pastor. The pastor is the hub of the wheel that is the congregation, and all the spokes connect with him. The pastor is involved in all aspects of the life of the congregation, visits with all of the members over time, provides direct pastoral care to all members of the flock who need it.
He attends all or at least most of the activities of the congregation, including all the board and council meetings, the youth group, the ladies auxiliary, etc. You get the picture. This is one of the reasons that the small church is homogeneous, because organizationally it is unified around the functioning of its pastor. This doesn’t mean that the pastor is not delegating work to others and equipping other leaders, but it does mean that the organizational life of the congregation centers in the called minister.
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JW: Midsized churches, especially those on the lower end of the spectrum (closer to 150), have several vulnerabilities. What are some of those vulnerabilities that pastors will have to lead their churches through?
DP: The biggest vulnerability relates to the previous answer I gave: The pastor and the members need to make the shift from being pastor-centered to being group-oriented. The pastor will need to give up control of many of the goings-on in the church. He will need to train others to do some of the ministry that he had previously done. This can be difficult for some pastors who find personal value and fulfillment in attending directly to every need of every member of the congregation. Similarly, the members will need to give up the expectation that the pastor will be present at all their church activities and will be immediately available for all their needs. This tension makes churches with AWA of 150–250 particularly vulnerable.
Other vulnerabilities that I address in my book are the awkwardness of the hybrid character of midsize churches, negative self-image, and demands on leaders. But I also want to emphasize that there are many distinctive opportunities for churches of this size to embrace and capitalize on. That is the main focus of my book.
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JW: What is the primary difference between a church just below the midsized threshold and one that is in it? If one of our readers is making that transition, what are two or three things you would want to alert him of?
DP: I would say that the primary difference is in transitioning from being homogenous in orientation to becoming more heterogeneous in composition. As I said earlier, the small church is going to be more intuitively unified around the dominant families in the congregation and its singular pastor. But the midsize church is more diverse and heterogeneous, with a proliferation of program offerings, worship services, worship styles, staff workers, lay leaders, program boards, identity groups, educational offerings, mission opportunities, and so on. The way in which leadership and communication happens is very different between these size cultures.
To any readers who are going through this transition, I recommend that you be open to the church becoming more diverse in some congregational dynamics. Research indicates that young people value diversity, and this is something that you can celebrate about the changes in your church. To those who are pastors, I recommend that you give up the role of being the singular parson in your church and embrace the role of raising up other leaders—staff and lay—to partner with you. Learn skills of management and administration, including staff supervision, because you will need these skills. This will also require you to give up any sense of having your hands on everything that is happening in the church. You will need to release control to others. But in so doing you will multiply ministry!
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JW: Since midsized churches are typically more program-oriented, what are some practical ways such churches can avoid the busyness and activity-obsessed tendencies found in a lot of American suburban life? It’s clear from your book that you’re not giving a blanket endorsement simply to do more and more programs the larger a church gets.
DP: This is an important insight that you have gleaned from the book. Although the midsize church has been described as the program church, programs do not exist simply for their own sake. They should serve people and promote people’s growth in faith and discipleship. So the focus must always be on developing the people and not the programs. It is also important to have clear objectives and outcomes for the programs that align with God’s priorities for His Church and to assess whether or not the programs are achieving these outcomes. The final chapter of the book focuses on productivity, which I equate with the biblical concept of fruitfulness. God calls us to be fruitful. He desires productivity—not just activity—that advances His purposes and priorities.
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JW: You argue that the pastoral role functions differently depending on the church size. You’re not saying the nature of the office changes, are you? Say a little more about how the biblical definition of a pastor relates to leading churches of different sizes.
DP: God has identified priorities that those in the pastoral office are to attend to. These include preaching the Word, administering baptism and the Lord’s Supper, teaching the faith, and overseeing the doctrinal teaching of the church. Pastors of all sizes of churches are to see to the equipping of the saints for the work of service and for the growth in faith and spiritual maturity of members. They are to make sure that the members are cared for in spirit and body. And they are to participate in mission and to equip others to reach the lost. These priorities are constant, no matter what size the church. They are essential to the role of pastor, to the nature of the office, as you put it.
HOW this is done will differ depending on the size of the congregation. For example, the pastor of a midsize church may not do all of the monthly visits to homebound members. Other staff or trained lay volunteers might assist. In a small church, the minister will be the primary teacher of Bible classes, adult instruction courses, and youth discipleship formation. But, in a midsize church, the pastor will delegate many of these roles to other qualified workers, be they staff or volunteer. In this case the minister functions more according to what the Bible calls the overseer (Greek episkopos), overseeing that others carry out the functions.
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JW: One last question. You very clearly say that we want to help move people from being consumers to contributors. How can all churches avoid fostering the consumer culture that can be found in churches of any size, in any region?
DP: The key to this is to help Christians to embrace Jesus’ call in John 15:8: “By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples” (cf. 15:16; English Standard Version). In one sense being a consumer is not a bad thing. One must consume food in order to be healthy. Similarly, we need to consume the gospel in order to be fruitful, what Jesus means when He says: “Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit” (15:5). So I want the members of my church to be consumers of God’s Word. The church offers much in terms of ministry and programs to feed the flock—but not so that they get fat and lazy. Instead, they regularly are fed and nurtured in the faith so that they produce the fruit of the Spirit and advance God’s Kingdom in the world. This means not living for oneself but living for Christ and for others to whom He sends us: “This is my commandment, that you love one other as I have loved you” (15:12).
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JW: Thank you so much for your time and for writing this book. I pray many of our readers will take advantage of it. It’s a short book, but it says a lot.
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